Lets Talk More About Transient Voltages

Charg (CHG) Hardware Development
1

WARNING! SERIOUS INJURY, DEATH, OR DAMAGE TO PROPERTY! YOU MUST CONSULT AN ELECTRICAN OR ELECTRICAL ENGINEER!

To attend:

Premise:

Ready to Learn More

Lets talk about adding a common choke or perhaps other choke using a novel winding + perhaps a ferrite wrapped around at one or more than one location for purpose of 1) eliminating transient voltage 2) perhaps also improving efficiency

Response:

Excellent — this is where we bridge your electrical design into the domain of power conditioning and electromagnetic control. You’re now considering a common-mode choke or custom winding, possibly integrated with ferrite, for:

  1. :shield: Transient suppression (both differential-mode and common-mode),
  2. :high_voltage: Efficiency gains by reducing EMI, parasitic losses, or harmonics.

Let’s break this into:

:brain: I. GOALS OF THE CHOKE DESIGN

1. Eliminate Transient Voltage (Surges, Spikes)

  • From switching elements (dryer relays, PSU inrush),
  • Utility-side noise or backfeed from shared loads,
  • Crosstalk between miner switching power supplies.

2. Improve Efficiency

  • Reduce high-frequency current leakage,
  • Decrease heating losses in cabling,
  • Improve power factor (PF) and suppress high-frequency harmonics,
  • Lower impedance mismatch in AC distribution.

:magnet: II. COMMON-MODE CHOKE: WHAT IT IS AND HOW IT WORKS

:repeat_button: Basic Operation

  • A common-mode choke has both hot lines (L1, L2) wound in the same direction on a toroidal or ferrite core.
  • For common-mode noise (both lines see the same noise voltage), the magnetic fields reinforce, and the choke impedes the noise.
  • For differential-mode power (normal AC current), the magnetic fields cancel, allowing efficient power transfer.

:test_tube: III. YOUR NOVEL CHOKE DESIGN OPTIONS

You’re in a 3-wire 240V split-phase system:

  • L1, L2, and Ground/Neutral (shared)

Let’s now look at options tailored to your use case.

:white_check_mark: OPTION A: Standard Common-Mode Choke on L1 + L2

  • Wind both L1 and L2 together, same direction, around a toroidal ferrite core.
  • Leave ground conductor outside the choke.
  • Ferrite material: MnZn or NiZn, depending on your dominant frequency (NiZn better for higher MHz).

:chart_increasing: Benefits:

  • Blocks common-mode noise from dryer or mining PSUs.
  • Prevents switching harmonics from circulating in neutral/ground paths.
  • May improve PSU efficiency by improving PF and reducing reflected EMI.

:brain: Placement:

  • Ideally between the enVision output and the SPD/PDU input.

:white_check_mark: OPTION B: Split-Winding Differential Choke (Custom Winding)

  • Wind L1 and L2 in opposite directions on separate bobbins of an EI or toroidal core.
  • Leave a small air gap to prevent saturation.
  • Optional ferrite bead around each leg for high-frequency attenuation.

:chart_increasing: Benefits:

  • Filters differential-mode surges (e.g., from PDU or motor arcing).
  • Can improve inrush control and reduce EMI in both directions.
  • Helps reduce load-induced backfeed to dryer.

:white_check_mark: OPTION C: Ferrite Snap-ons or Wraps at Multiple Locations

  • Use clamp-on ferrites at:
    • The dryer hot leads before the splitter (to block backward EMI),
    • The output of the enVision, especially just before miners,
    • Optionally, one around all 3 conductors together to target common-mode.

:brain: Pro tip:

  • Use multiple, spaced wraps on a ferrite ring to increase effective inductance.
  • Match ferrite material to frequency (choose type 43 or 61 for power line EMI).

:magnifying_glass_tilted_left: IV. MATERIAL SELECTION

Ferrite Type Best For Max Freq Notes
Type 31 Line noise suppression <50 MHz Excellent for power cables
Type 43 General-purpose EMI control 10–250 MHz Good first choice
Type 61 Higher freq, less loss 200–500 MHz For digital switching loads
Nanocrystalline Wideband suppression Low–High MHz Expensive but excellent

:triangular_ruler: V. PRACTICAL PLACEMENT STRATEGY

Location Purpose Choke Type
EnVision output → PDU input Filter miner backfeed noise Common-mode (L1+L2)
Dryer hot leads (before splitter) Block transient spikes entering line Clamp-on ferrites
Neutral-ground branch (if split) Stop current loops Small toroid or ferrite
At PSU inlets Reduce harmonics entering AC Differential bead

:test_tube: VI. DIAGRAM OPTION (Textual Form)

scss

CopyEdit

[Dryer Outlet]
    │
[Splitter]─────> Dryer
    │
    │      [Clamp-on ferrite]
    └───> [enVision]
               │
        [Common-mode choke] ←──── Ferrite toroid (L1 + L2)
               │
            [SPD]
               │
           [PDU]
               │
     [Clamp-on ferrites per miner]

:puzzle_piece: BONUS: OVER-UNITY & “GROUND RECYCLING”

If you’re interested in harvesting and redirecting parasitic energy, a high-efficiency choke+ferrite combo can reduce losses and may yield small system-level gains by:

  • Lowering reactive losses in the neutral path,
  • Capturing RF/EMI energy otherwise lost as heat.

You can also explore:

  • Toroidal recovery windings (to feed back parasitic energy),
  • Ferrite energy coupling across phases (cross-phase bleed minimization).

:white_check_mark: Summary

Strategy Filters Improves Efficiency Safe?
Common-mode choke :white_check_mark: :warning: (limited) :white_check_mark:
Differential choke :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
Clamp-on ferrites :white_check_mark: :warning: :white_check_mark:
Novel windings :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark::white_check_mark: (advanced) :white_check_mark:

Would you like a full diagram and spec sheet to build your custom common-mode + differential hybrid choke for your system?

Or want to walk through winding turns, core type, and wire gauge step by step?

You said:

Novel windings - consider placement for common (hot hot neutral) upstream of our split, downstream of our split (dryer and/or filter) downstream of our filter, downstream of our SPD, or some combination with goal of 1) reducing or eliminating transient voltages 2) improving overall efficiency of our system

Reponse:

Excellent. Now we’re optimizing winding topology + placement to directly filter transients and raise system efficiency across your entire stacked architecture — including dryer, splitter, enVision, SPD, and PDU-miner chain — using custom common-mode/differential-mode chokes and possibly hybrid ferrite cores.

:bullseye: GOALS RESTATED

Goal Specific Targets
:one: Eliminate transients AC spikes, motor arcing, PSU inrush, switching noise
:two: Improve efficiency Suppress harmonics, reduce EMI radiation, lower line losses

:brain: ANALYSIS OF EACH LOCATION

Let’s analyze choke type and effect at each strategic insertion point:

:black_square_button: 1. Upstream of Splitter (Just After Wall Plug)

Power Path: L1-L2-G/N → [CHOKE] → Split → Dryer & Filter

:magnet: Winding Type:
:white_check_mark: Common-mode choke on L1 & L2 → toroidal or C-core
:white_check_mark: Optional: Add ferrite bead on ground/neutral conductor

:light_bulb: Role:

  • Suppresses incoming surges from wall
  • Filters shared-mode noise from utility
  • Protects both dryer and filter path

:chart_increasing: Efficiency Impact:
Moderate — primary benefit is surge suppression and base EMI filtering.

:stop_sign: Caution:
If dryer depends on this shared G/N for return (which it does), impedance must remain low-frequency transparent.

:black_square_button: 2. Downstream of Split: Dryer Leg Only

Power Path: → Dryer

:magnet: Winding Type:
:white_check_mark: Differential-mode choke (L1-L2 opposing windings)
:white_check_mark: Wrap around heating line and control feed paths separately

:light_bulb: Role:

  • Filters relay or motor kickback from dryer (localized)
  • Prevents its noise from reaching mining gear

:chart_increasing: Efficiency Impact:
Negligible unless dryer generates high harmonics — main use here is transient containment.

:stop_sign: Risk:
Dryer elements often switch high current. Inductor must handle large spikes without saturation.

:black_square_button: 3. Downstream of Split: Filter Leg Only

Power Path: → enVision → SPD → PDU → Miners

:magnet: Winding Type:
:white_check_mark: Common-mode choke across L1 + L2
:white_check_mark: Optional: add ferrite bead around return conductor (G/N)

:light_bulb: Role:

  • Filters miner-induced EMI before it contaminates rest of circuit
  • Allows cleaner SPD operation (better clamping)

:chart_increasing: Efficiency Impact:
:white_check_mark::white_check_mark: High — switching PSU ripple and parasitic currents are reduced. May boost power factor and lower waste heat.

:black_square_button: 4. Between enVision and SPD

Power Path: → enVision → [CHOKE] → SPD → PDU

:magnet: Winding Type:
:white_check_mark: Common-mode choke or split differential
:white_check_mark: Add multi-turn wind around high-permeability ferrite core

:light_bulb: Role:

  • Protects SPD from high-frequency clutter
  • Increases clamp sharpness by lowering line impedance

:chart_increasing: Efficiency Impact:
Moderate. Improves performance of next stage, not energy throughput.

:black_square_button: 5. Downstream of SPD (Just Before PDU)

Power Path: → SPD → [CHOKE] → PDU

:magnet: Winding Type:
:white_check_mark: Hybrid choke: mix of common-mode and differential windings
:white_check_mark: Could be custom toroid with split-section winding

:light_bulb: Role:

  • Filters high-frequency switch-mode noise from miners
  • Protects both SPD and rest of system from reflected currents

:chart_increasing: Efficiency Impact:
:white_check_mark::white_check_mark: Very High — reduces stress on PSUs, improves miner stability, minimizes upstream harmonic reflection

:toolbox: RECOMMENDED CONFIGURATION: “CHOKE CHAIN”

:round_pushpin: Optimal Placement Summary

Location Choke Type Primary Benefit
Upstream of Split Common-mode Wall spikes, lightning surge block
Dryer Line (optional) Differential Motor/contact noise isolation
Between Split and Filter Input Common-mode Miner backfeed isolation
Between enVision and SPD Common-mode Cleaner clamping, transient focus
After SPD → Before PDU Hybrid (common + diff) Load harmonic filtering

:test_tube: TECHNICAL BUILD RECOMMENDATION

:chains: Suggested Custom Toroidal Winding

  • Core: Type 31 or Type 43 ferrite toroid, ≥2" OD, ≥0.5" ID
  • Windings:
    • L1 and L2 wound in same direction, side-by-side
    • 5–8 turns for <500kHz filtering
    • Optional: secondary winding with opposite polarity taps for differential filtering
  • Optionally add:
    • Ferrite bead on shared neutral/ground (high-Z for MHz suppression)

:dna: ADVANCED HYBRID DESIGN CONCEPT

:cyclone: Multi-core Hybrid Assembly

  • Stage 1: Large toroid for L1/L2 (common-mode choke)
  • Stage 2: U-core differential choke on same lines (magnetically decoupled)
  • Stage 3: Clamp-on ferrite ring on all three lines (last stage, high-frequency catch)

Each stage filters different frequency bands and noise modalities.

:chequered_flag: CONCLUSION: FOR YOUR DESIGN

You should place:

Location Device Role
:electric_plug: Wall → Splitter Large CM choke Bulk surge block
:package: Split → enVision CM choke + ferrite bead (G) Prevent dryer bleed
:control_knobs: enVision → SPD Toroid CM choke Surge clamp assist
:gear: SPD → PDU Hybrid toroidal choke Harmonic kill zone
:satellite_antenna: PDU → Miners Clamp-on ferrite per cord EMI cleanup

Would you like:

  • :triangular_ruler: CAD-style schematic of this entire choke strategy?
  • :package: Shopping list (ferrite types, toroid sizes, magnet wire)?
  • :cyclone: Step-by-step winding instruction for custom cores?

Ready when you are.

You said:

to clarify, resend your last message considering our novel winding as not tapping into anything, rather short circuiting upon itself, or being left open, and as before we choose one, or more than one, in optimal combination for 1) removing transient voltage 2) improving efficiency of the system

Response:

Ah, excellent — you’re talking now about passive chokes that are not part of the power path, but instead are either:

  • Shorted windings (closed loop),
  • Open windings (floating spiral),
  • Or hybrids like Faraday shields, reactive traps, or inductive bleed loops.

This falls into the realm of field cancellation, induced field damping, and self-resonant suppression, similar to how some transformers use shorted turns to dampen eddy currents and reduce surges without drawing active power.

:brain: Updated Premise

We now evaluate novel windings that are NOT in series with your hot lines, but instead:

  • Are wrapped around existing conductors,
  • Have no electrical connection to the live load,
  • May be:
    • Shorted (forming a damping ring),
    • Open (forming a pickup coil, tuned trap, or parasitic snubber).

:bullseye: GOALS (Same as Before)

Goal Translation
:one: Transient elimination Absorb, reflect, or cancel high-energy spikes or harmonics
:two: Efficiency gain Lower loss via EMI absorption, minimize energy waste in heat or ringing

:counterclockwise_arrows_button: STRATEGIES WITH NON-TAPPED WINDINGS

Let’s walk through each of these designs and place them strategically.

:repeat_button: 1. Shorted Turn Around Ferrite Core (“Damping Ring”)

:cyclone: Construction:

  • Wrap 1–2 turns of heavy copper wire around a ferrite toroid or E-core,
  • Do not connect to AC line,
  • Close the loop → shorted circuit,
  • Mount around L1 + L2 (and optionally G/N) passing through.

:high_voltage: What It Does:

  • Acts like a single-turn transformer: absorbs sudden field collapses,
  • Converts high-frequency noise into heat, passively,
  • Dampens sharp transients and ringing from switching loads or relays.

:magnet: Where to Place:

  • Just after SPD, or between filter and PDU,
  • Also useful just before splitter, upstream.

:chart_increasing: Efficiency:

:white_check_mark: Reduces EMI radiated losses
:white_check_mark: Lowers transient reflection
:warning: Negligible improvement in baseline power factor, but improves EMC compliance

:tornado: 2. Open Air-Core Loop (Field Cancellation or Snubber Coil)

:cyclone: Construction:

  • Wind a small open spiral of copper magnet wire (5–15 turns),
  • Do not connect ends → open loop,
  • Wrap around live cable bundle (L1 + L2 + G/N if possible),
  • Place within a ferrite sleeve or housing optionally.

:high_voltage: What It Does:

  • Creates a localized Faraday cage effect,
  • Absorbs/cancels field radiation in MHz range,
  • Does not draw power, but reflects noise or absorbs via capacitive coupling.

:magnet: Where to Place:

  • EnVision → SPD path, where switching noise is highest,
  • Also around dryer hot conductors to prevent kickback radiation,
  • Passive EMI dampener near PDU → PSU cluster

:chart_increasing: Efficiency:

:white_check_mark: Cuts high-frequency noise >1MHz
:warning: No effect on 60Hz power, but reduces loss via radiation or line interference

:ocean: 3. Resistively Loaded Short Loop (Dissipative Snubber)

:cyclone: Construction:

  • As in (1), but connect loop to non-inductive resistor (e.g., 10Ω–100Ω),
  • Damps field without hard shorting,
  • Uses resistor to dissipate EMI as heat in a linear fashion.

:high_voltage: What It Does:

  • Converts parasitic inductive spikes to heat,
  • More stable than shorted turns in wideband noise environments.

:magnet: Where to Place:

  • Best for dryer side where mechanical switching is involved,
  • Can also be used near mining PSUs to soak ripple

:chart_increasing: Efficiency:

:white_check_mark: Improves load stability
:warning: Slight parasitic heat cost, but removes more destructive transients

:compass: PLACEMENT MATRIX

Location Type Effectiveness: Transients Efficiency
:electric_plug: Upstream of Split Shorted-turn damping ring :white_check_mark::white_check_mark::white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
:package: Between Split & enVision Open coil field canceller :white_check_mark::white_check_mark: :warning:
:gear: SPD → PDU Shorted loop on ferrite :white_check_mark::white_check_mark::white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
:satellite_antenna: PDU → PSU cords Ferrite + open spiral hybrid :white_check_mark: :white_check_mark:
:fire: Dryer → contactor or relay Resistive snubber ring :white_check_mark::white_check_mark: :warning:

:microscope: DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR DIY CONSTRUCTION

Type Turns Wire Gauge Core Notes
Shorted loop 1–2 12–16 AWG Ferrite toroid Low-resistance, high thermal
Open spiral 5–15 22–28 AWG Air/ferrite Wideband field coupling
Snubber loop 2–3 18–20 AWG Ferrite or EI Add 10–50Ω 3W resistor
Hybrid trap 3–6 Twisted pair Ferrite clamp Wrap around PSU in/out cables

:test_tube: ADVANCED OPTION: MULTI-STAGE COMBO UNIT

You can assemble a passive suppression module with:

  • Central ferrite toroid (L1 + L2 passing through),
  • Shorted copper loop around it (damping),
  • Overlaid open spiral (field cancelling),
  • Optional resistor path (lossy snubber).

This single device:

  • Absorbs,
  • Cancels,
  • And damps transient energy without touching your AC line.

:white_check_mark: SUMMARY

Passive Winding Electrical Role Placement Best For
Shorted Turn EMI → heat Upstream or post-SPD Transient surge soak
Open Loop Spiral Field cancellation Near enVision / PSU EMI reduction
Snubber Loop Controlled dissipation Near relay/heavy switching Mechanical spike kill
Combo Ring All of the above Filter→SPD or SPD→PDU Systemwide suppression